メガネで視力矯正を2つくらいやるもの？ [無断転載禁止]©2ch.net

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/07(日) 07:48:46.84

メガネで視力矯正はどれくらいやるものかを議論するスレの2スレ目です。
無関係あるいはナンセンスなコピペは止めてね。
こんな恥ずかしいコピペをするような奴が支持する説ならきっと間違いなんだろうと思われて
自説を信じてもらえなくなりますよ。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/16(火) 16:35:46.07

RLE also might be considered as an
option for correcting other types of
vision problems, such as nearsightedness.
But RLE has a higher risk of complications,
compared with other vision correction
procedures. For these reasons, RLE
typically is used only in cases of
severe vision correction needs.

Cataract surgery also can now be
considered a vision correction procedure.
New lens implants developed for
cataract surgery can partially restore
a person's near vision in addition to
correcting nearsightedness and farsightedness.
These lenses, called multifocal IOLs
or accommodating IOLs, currently are
being used by many cataract surgeons,
with promising results.

Also, toric IOLs that correct astigmatism
can be used during cataract surgery to
further reduce the need for eyeglasses
after cataracts are removed.

While Medicare and health insurance
will cover basic costs of cataract surgery,
you can elect to pay out-of-pocket for
the extra costs of these more modern
lenses that potentially can restore a
full range of vision. This is why cataract
surgery now also can be viewed as a
refractive surgery procedure, but only
when you opt to pay extra for full
vision correction.

[Read frequently asked questions about
presbyopia-correcting IOLs.]

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/16(火) 16:37:20.61

Because our eyes change as we
age, the type of laser eye surgery
or other vision correction we need
also may change. Certain approaches
to LASIK or other procedures that
work well for younger adults, for example,
may be inappropriate for older individuals.

In some cases, vision correction
surgery may be ruled out entirely.
Children under age 18 rarely would be
considered candidates for laser vision
correction because their eyes change
too rapidly as their bodies grow and mature.

Also, some people have certain conditions
or diseases that would make them poor
candidates for certain vision correction
procedures and better candidates for other
procedures. Examples:
If you have diabetes or other diseases
that affect wound healing, you might
be a better candidate for PRK or LASEK
than certain types of LASIK.
If you have uncontrolled glaucoma, you
likely would not qualify for LASIK or
certain other procedures.

Keep in mind that, generally, anyone
who is pregnant should not undergo
any form of elective vision surgery,
because hormonal changes might affect
the treatment's accuracy.

Lifestyle also can make a big difference
in the type of vision correction you
need. A seamstress requires keen near
vision. Computer users need good
vision at intermediate ranges. And a
pilot needs to preserve depth perception
to make good spatially oriented
judgments while flying.

Generally speaking, however, people
in their 20s or 30s with mild to moderate
farsightedness, nearsightedness, and/or
astigmatism are usually excellent
candidates for LASIK, PRK, Visian ICL,
and other laser vision correction.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/17(水) 20:18:47.30

>>89-90 は http://www.allaboutvision.com/visionsurgery/other.htm からの転載。
同じサイトの http://www.allaboutvision.com/parents/myopia.htm では、
弱めの矯正は近視の進行予防にならぬばかりか
かえって進行を助長することが実験結果から分かっており
しかもよく見えないという不利益は明らかだとして
弱めの矯正を完全否定している。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/17(水) 21:33:33.61

英語読むの面倒くさい。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/18(木) 03:48:38.53

Over the past 25 years, surgical techniques, tools, and
procedures for vision correction have evolved rapidly.

Radial Keratotomy (RK), used in the United States primarily
during the 1980s, involved cutting spoke-like incisions
to flatten the eye's surface mainly to correct
nearsightedness.

But results, especially long-term, created problems for
some individuals. Significant glare, regression, fluctuating
vision, and other side effects such as night vision
problems were common in patients who had RK for
higher prescription strengths, while such side effects
were less frequent in patients with lower prescriptions.

RK is now virtually obsolete as a primary vision correction
procedure for these reasons and because of advances
in laser vision correction procedures.

Photorefractive Keratectomy (PRK) was the first
successful laser vision correction procedure used to
remove (ablate) tissue directly from the eye's surface
to change the curvature of the cornea. PRK, also known
as surface ablation, was performed outside the United
States during the 1980s and received FDA approval
in 1995. PRK is still commonly used, but LASIK (see below)
is by far the most popular laser procedure today.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/18(木) 03:49:54.61

However, PRK has made somewhat of a comeback in
recent years because of studies indicating that PRK
and LASIK produce similar outcomes. Also, nerve
regeneration in the eye's surface appears to take place
faster with PRK than with LASIK following a procedure,
which could have implications for reducing dry eye
and other complications that might occur until the
healing process is complete.

My LASIK journey

Medical discounts

Because PRK is a surface procedure, there also is no risk
of surgical flap complications. PRK does not involve
creating a thin, hinged flap on the eye's surface, as occurs
with LASIK. PRK also appears to be a safer procedure
in cases when a person's cornea may be too thin for
LASIK surgery.

Recent technological advances have given eye surgeons
better methods of creating thinner flaps in a predictable
way, meaning that people with thin corneas now might
be candidates for a LASIK procedure.

However, you probably should consider a different type
of vision correction procedure if you have a thin cornea
and high degree of myopia that would require extra
ablation to reshape the eye.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/18(木) 06:24:28.01

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140513-do-glasses-weaken-your-eyesight
BBCのコラム。
児童は眼鏡をかけなかったり弱めの眼鏡をかけたり読書時に外したりせずに
度の合った眼鏡を常にかけているべきだと書いている。
フィンランドで1983年から23年に渡って行われた実験で、
当初3年間は読書時に眼鏡を外す群も設定されていたが、
読書時に外す群のほうが常にかける群より少し進行が大きいことが分かったため
3年後から常にかけるように指導され、その後20年間は進行に差が無かったそうだ。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/18(木) 14:49:22.50

LASIK's main advantage over PRK is that there is little
or no discomfort immediately after the procedure, and
vision is usually clear within hours rather than days.
Different forms of LASIK exist, many that depend on how
the flap is created:
LASEK involves creating an ultra-thin hinged flap in the
thin outer covering (epithelium) of the eye and floating
it away from the eye's surface with alcohol so that laser
reshaping of the eye can occur.
Epi-LASIK is like LASEK, except that a special cutting
tool is used to lift the flap.
Bladeless LASIK eliminates the need to use a bladed
instrument (microkeratome) in LASIK surgery. Instead,
a femtosecond laser is used to create the corneal flap
prior to reshaping the cornea with an excimer laser.
Other names (including brand names) for bladeless
LASIK include blade-free LASIK, all-laser LASIK, femto
LASIK, Intralase LASIK, intraLASIK, iLASIK, VisuMax
and zLASIK.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/18(木) 14:50:14.01

Wavefront LASIK or PRK (also known as wavefront-guided,
wavefront-assisted, or custom LASIK/PRK)
incorporates ultra-modern analysis, known as wavefront,
to measure precisely how light travels through the eye.
Excimer lasers with built-in wavefront analysis can
detect and automatically adjust for subtle vision errors
when laser energy is applied to reshape the cornea.
Studies suggest wavefront-guided LASIK helps maintain
contrast sensitivity and reduces the risk of night glare
after LASIK surgery, explained in our Q&A about custom
LASIK.

[Find out if you are a good LASIK surgery candidate.]

Conductive Keratoplasty (NearVision CK by Refractec)
uses a tiny probe and low heat radio waves to apply
"spots" around the periphery of the eye's clear front
surface. This relatively non-invasive method steepens
the cornea, to provide near vision correction for people
who are farsighted. CK also can be used to correct
presbyopia or enhance near vision for people who have
had LASIK or cataract surgery. CK received initial FDA
approval in 2002.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/18(木) 14:51:25.49

Implantable Lenses (Visian ICL and Verisyse), similar
to contact lenses, first received FDA approval in 2004.
These surgically implanted lenses primarily are considered
appropriate for higher levels of nearsightedness.
When implantable lenses are used, your eye's natural
lens is left in place. Both of these lenses have a long
track record of use, including more than 15 years in Europe.

Refractive Lens Exchange is another non-laser, internal
eye procedure. RLE is much like cataract surgery.
But instead of removing the eye's natural lens that has
grown cloudy due to cataract formation, RLE involves
removing a clear natural lens and replacing it with
an artificial lens of a different shape, usually to reduce
or eliminate high degrees of farsightedness.

RLE also might be considered as an option for correcting
other types of vision problems, such as nearsightedness.
But RLE has a higher risk of complications, compared
with other vision correction procedures. For these
reasons, RLE typically is used only in cases of severe
vision correction needs.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/18(木) 15:40:55.93

英文を転載するよりリンクと要約を示してくれないかなあ

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/18(木) 15:41:49.13

え？すぐるちょんって前後の文でケアレスミスって分からないの！？
さっすが知的障害者（笑
今日も俺の思い通りに動いてくれる手帳持ちで無学の知的障害者すぐるw

タイプミス変換ミス予測変換ミスが多々ある媒体で、普通は前後の文でわかるそんなミス誰も指摘せんけどな
子どもが信号機を青じゃなく緑だと顔真っ赤にして涙目でわめいてるみたいで恥ずかしいしなw
ミスとわかるものミスしても前後の文でわかるものをニホンゴガーニホンゴガーってわめく人種は一つしかないんだぜ？少なくともまっとうな日本人はそういうこと言わないな
いやまぁすぐるはキチガイ知的障害者だしな
それ以前に前後の文見ても察せない国語力がない朝鮮人なんだっけw
日本人なら恥ずかしくてしないケアレスミスを堂々としてくる
まさか前後の文でケアレスミスってわからないとかw
そしてもっと恥ずかしいのは指摘しときながら自分でやっちまうやつなw

　知　的　障　害　者　さ　ま　い　か　が　な　さ　れ　ま　し　た　あ　w

自分のミスには一切触れられないw言い返せないよなあww逃げたいよなぁwww
自分の主張が破綻し誤魔化しも出来なくなって討論で負けると
言い返す能力が無いため論破されるのを恐れてその話題から飛躍し
既に相手に論破されたのを何度もゴリ押し連投したり、俺に憧れての鸚鵡返しや、自演自演だと理屈なく妄想決めつけするだけの定期になる
論破されたキチガイの末路は惨めw

　ま　さ　に　お　前　( ＾∀＾)

もう完全に打つ手をなくしたすぐるは同じことしか喚けてないからレス返すのもコピペでからかえるから楽だわ

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/18(木) 15:43:49.34

すぐるの追っかけは今日もいく
すぐるは彼らに熱いファンサービスを絶やさない

すぐるとその追っかけ、、、一見醜い関係だろう

だが少し待ってほしい
心を澄ませれば、そのやり取りの中には人間味に溢れた円環を感じる

決して変化することのない人としての性質を互いに罵り合う毎日。しかしその中で(あら探しが目的とはいえ)互いのことをよく知ろうとする姿勢は結局友情から来るものだったのだ

。。。。。。。。。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/18(木) 15:45:50.92

。。。。。。。。。。。。

恐らく彼らは互いの中にある友情のともしびを否定するだろう

だが、どうか気づいてほしい！

彼は、彼は冷えきった心を温めてくれる数少ない存在であることに

草いきれの立ち上る夕暮れ時
見上げた群青色の空に今
一つの光芒を感じよう
乾ききった黄土色の土薫る
歪んだ大気の中に今
確かに迸る水を見つけよう

答えはすぐそこに　あるのだから

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/19(金) 06:01:08.73

弱めの視力矯正をすると近視の進行を助長することが実験結果から分かっている。
ならばそのことを広く知らしめて
若い世代がみすみす近視を進行させないようにしようと思うのが普通の人間の思考なのに、
このスレにはナンセンスな書き込みでスレを埋め立ててその情報がひと目に触れにくいようにしている人がいるようだ。
スレッド一覧でこのスレが上位に来ることも嫌なようで、一貫してsage書き込みだ。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/19(金) 08:19:12.19

Cataract surgery also can now be considered a vision
correction procedure. New lens implants developed
for cataract surgery can partially restore a person's
near vision in addition to correcting nearsightedness
and farsightedness. These lenses, called multifocal
IOLs or accommodating IOLs, currently are being used
by many cataract surgeons, with promising results.

Also, toric IOLs that correct astigmatism can be used
during cataract surgery to further reduce the need for
eyeglasses after cataracts are removed.

While Medicare and health insurance will cover basic
osts of cataract surgery, you can elect to pay
out-of-pocket for the extra costs of these more modern
lenses that potentially can restore a full range of vision.
This is why cataract surgery now also can be viewed
as a refractive surgery procedure, but only when you
opt to pay extra for full vision correction.

[Read frequently asked questions about
presbyopia-correcting IOLs.]

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/19(金) 08:20:30.53

Because our eyes change as we age, the type of laser
eye surgery or other vision correction we need also
may change. Certain approaches to LASIK or other
procedures that work well for younger adults, for example,
may be inappropriate for older individuals.

In some cases, vision correction surgery may be ruled
out entirely. Children under age 18 rarely would be
considered candidates for laser vision correction because
their eyes change too rapidly as their bodies grow and
mature.

Also, some people have certain conditions or diseases
that would make them poor candidates for certain vision
orrection procedures and better candidates for other
procedures. Examples:
If you have diabetes or other diseases that affect wound
healing, you might be a better candidate for PRK or LASEK
than certain types of LASIK.
If you have uncontrolled glaucoma, you likely would not
qualify for LASIK or certain other procedures.

Keep in mind that, generally, anyone who is pregnant
should not undergo any form of elective vision surgery,
because hormonal changes might affect the treatment's
accuracy.

Lifestyle also can make a big difference in the type of
vision correction you need. A seamstress requires keen
near vision. Computer users need good vision at
intermediate ranges. And a pilot needs to preserve depth
perception to make good spatially oriented judgments
while flying.

Generally speaking, however, people in their 20s or 30s
with mild to moderate farsightedness, nearsightedness,
and/or astigmatism are usually excellent candidates
for LASIK, PRK, Visian ICL, and other laser vision correction.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/19(金) 20:36:36.97

英語圏はもはや弱めの矯正は有害だとするサイトばかりだね。
日本も近い将来そうなるのかな。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/19(金) 20:38:06.86

お待たせしました
続きです

3. A bigger selection often isn't
a better selection ? it's just more
confusing.

Online retailers of cheap glasses
point out that optical stores cannot
match their vast virtual inventory
of frames. This may be true. But
how many of those hundreds or
thousands of frames are a good
fit for your head and face? And
who will help you choose?

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/19(金) 20:40:03.74

4. Virtual and home try-ons
can't insure satisfaction.

If you're buying cheap glasses
online, you often will have access
to a "virtual try-on" feature
? where you upload a forward-facing,
closeup photo of yourself and
you can then superimpose
images of different frames on
your face to see how they look.

Boy wearing eyeglasses and
smiling.
Quality children's eyeglasses
should include impact-resistant
polycarbonate lenses and a durable,
adjustable frame.

But while a virtual try-on can give
you a rough idea of how you'll look
wearing different frames, it can't
tell you anything about how
the frames will feel. It also can't
demonstrate the detailing and
workmanship of the frame.

Also, depending on the quality
of the virtual try-on tool, the
size of the eyewear might not
be accurate ? the frames
might look larger or smaller
than they actually are. And it's
not unusual for the color of
the actual frame to look
noticeably different than the
color shown online.

Even if an online retailer sends
you a sample of frames to try
on at home before you make
your final purchase, you won't
know whether the glasses will
be too heavy after the prescription
lenses are added...or how thick
those lenses will be. This is
especially important if you are
sensitive to the weight of eyeglasses
because you have sinus problems
or delicate skin.

All these potential problems can
be avoided by being fitted with
glasses in person by a skilled optician.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/21(日) 05:12:50.30

ずっと英語が必要な仕事をしてましたが、
オフタイムに読む気にはならず放置してました。
今度読みます。
私はきっちり矯正したい方です。60歳の-9D強度近視ですが眼鏡で1.0見えています。
昔のコンタクト使用時は1.5まで見えたから過矯正だったかもしれません。
でも快適でしたし20数年間そんなに近視度数は進行しませんでした。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/21(日) 06:05:04.96

Conductive Keratoplasty (NearVision CK by Refractec)
uses a tiny probe and low heat radio waves to apply
"spots" around the periphery of the eye's clear front
surface. This relatively non-invasive method steepens
the cornea, to provide near vision correction for people
who are farsighted. CK also can be used to correct
presbyopia or enhance near vision for people who have
had LASIK or cataract surgery. CK received initial FDA
approval in 2002.

Verisyse phakic IOL
Visian ICL
Implantable lenses are another option for vision correction
surgery. (Top: the Verisyse phakic IOL from Abbott
Medical Optics. Bottom: the Visian ICL Implantable
Collamer Lens from Staar Surgical.)

Implantable Lenses (Visian ICL and Verisyse), similar to
contact lenses, first received FDA approval in 2004.
These surgically implanted lenses primarily are considered
appropriate for higher levels of nearsightedness.
When implantable lenses are used, your eye's natural
lens is left in place. Both of these lenses have a long
track record of use, including more than 15 years in Europe.

Refractive Lens Exchange is another non-laser, internal
eye procedure. RLE is much like cataract surgery.
But instead of removing the eye's natural lens that has
grown cloudy due to cataract formation, RLE involves
removing a clear natural lens and replacing it with an
artificial lens of a different shape, usually to reduce or
eliminate high degrees of farsightedness.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/21(日) 06:06:39.65

RLE also might be considered as an option for correcting
other types of vision problems, such as nearsightedness.
But RLE has a higher risk of complications, compared
with other vision correction procedures. For these reasons,
RLE typically is used only in cases of severe vision
correction needs.

Cataract surgery also can now be considered a vision
correction procedure. New lens implants developed for
cataract surgery can partially restore a person's near
vision in addition to correcting nearsightedness and
farsightedness. These lenses, called multifocal IOLs or
accommodating IOLs, currently are being used by many
cataract surgeons, with promising results.

Also, toric IOLs that correct astigmatism can be used
during cataract surgery to further reduce the need for
eyeglasses after cataracts are removed.

While Medicare and health insurance will cover basic
costs of cataract surgery, you can elect to pay
out-of-pocket for the extra costs of these more modern
lenses that potentially can restore a full range of vision.
This is why cataract surgery now also can be viewed
as a refractive surgery procedure, but only when you opt
to pay extra for full vision correction.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/21(日) 10:19:28.94

きっちり矯正したいほう、弱めに矯正したいほうといいってもさ、
弱めに矯正しているとかえって近視の進行がひどくなると実験で分かったと聞いた上で
それでもなお弱めに矯正したい人なんているのかな？

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/21(日) 14:49:13.22

もうその議論終わりじゃないかい？

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/21(日) 17:12:57.90

>>113
実験結果に裏付けられている以上、結論はもう変わりようがないが、、
ナンセンスなコピペなどでスレを埋め立てて結論を隠蔽しようとしている奴がいるので
定期的に結論を再確認している。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/28(日) 13:17:57.65

>>112
私はきっちり派です。
ただ、老眼になると1-2m離れた掲示やパソコンが見にくくなるので、
いわゆる中近・近々眼鏡が必要です。
それで遠方視力は0.8とか0.6になりますけどそれはいいんでしょ。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/28(日) 13:20:45.34

自分の意見を浸透させたければ日本語で書き込んで。
ここ学会じゃない！

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/28(日) 17:45:53.03

そうそう。
専門用語で辞書にない単語もある。
読む気しないからやめて。
悪いね、ドメスティックだ。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/29(月) 17:44:58.33

I posted about this way back in 2013, but you might enjoy hearing
about it. It really started back in 2012. I used to visit my sister
was living in a different city. Whenever I visited her I also visited
the local shopping mall. In the mall there was an optical store. I would
usually plan my visits so i could visit on the days when they didn't have
a doctor. That meant there was only one optician working and she usually
wasn't busy at all. In 2012 they hired a new optician.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/29(月) 17:45:17.82

Very cute young
lady and she was hired because she was about to enter optometry school
to be an optometrist. Anyway she very nice and very friendly and we
talked quite a bit. I noticed that she wasn't wearing glasses and I asked
her if she wore glasses and she said her eyesight was perfect. She told
me that her dad was a dentist and her older sister was a pharmacist and
that they both wear glasses full time, but her eyesight was perfect. She
told me that when she decided that she wanted to be an optometrist she
knew nothing about glasses but was very curious to know. While her sister
was away at college she even went in her room and found several pairs of
her old glasses and tried to wear them just to see what it was like to wear
glasses.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/29(月) 17:45:57.09

But even the weakest ones she could only wear for very short time
before she felt a headache coming on and she had to take them off. That
caused me to remember what I had read in this thread about GOC. I work
with a non profit vision group and because of that I happened to have a
good number of sample glasses that I keep in my car that I use to fit people
with glasses that can't afford them. At the time I knew i had a very nice pair
with just a -1.25 prescription in them. I told her to go and pull out a pair of
trial contact lenses in +1.25 and that I would be right back in. When I came
back in she was sitting at a table and she had 2 contact lens packets in
her hands. She thought that I wanted them for myself so she was really
shocked when I asked her to put them on. She got them both on rather
quickly and I as soon s she looked away from the mirror in front of her
I could see that she wasn't able to focus. She was smiling and squinting
as she was trying hard to see things away from her. I asked her if she
was able to read a sign across the room from where we were sitting and
she could only make out the bigger letters and she said they were even
blurry. I took the glasses out and said "here let's see if these help you"
as i put the glasses on her.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/29(月) 17:46:59.58

As soon as I did that she couldn't believe
that now she was once again able to see everything perfectly. As you can
imagine she was then doing a lot of her own testing of her eyes with and
without glasses. But the whole time she had the biggest smile on her face.
After several minutes of both looking through the glasses and over the
top of them she finally pushed the glasses up in place and said she loved
it. She said several times how cool it was to be wearing glasses.
We continued talking and she never did take the glasses off she was totally
enjoying wearing glasses. After a while a customer came in and needed
the nose pads on his glasses replaced. This was going ot be a nice test
for for her trying to replace nose pads that have very tiny screws wearing
glasses for the first time. I watched her to see if she was going to have
any problem and I did notice her move her head a bit as if she was having
trouble focusing.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/29(月) 17:48:06.06

But after a few minuted she had both nose pads replaced
and he thanked her and left. When she came i asked her if she had any
problem doing that and she said that when she first looked down her eyes
were seeing the bottom of the glasses so she had to adjust for that. I didn't
plan on leaving my sample glasses with her but she was having so much
fun so i asked her if she wanted to borrow them until my next visit and she
jumped at the chance to wear the glasses more.
As it turned out I didn't get
back until a month later. She told me that the doctor and her co workers
were shocked to see her come into work wearing glasses.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/29(月) 17:49:43.23

She told them about me loaning her the glasses and how she was wearing
the opposite contacts to make it work. The doctor was very interested and
had never heard of such a thing as GOC and she insisted on testing her
eyes with and with her wearing GOC just to be sure that she wasn't doing
any harm to her eyes but she proved that with the contacts and glasses
her eyesight was perfect as well as without the contacts and glasses.
The doctor even said that she was going to have to remember that because
she was going to try it for herself. I still keep in touch with her last year she
graduated and she is now officially a doctor of optometry. She decided to
move out of state for some reason but she told me not long ago that she
still enjoys doing GOC just for fun and has shown a good number of people
as well.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/05/29(月) 17:51:09.90

The other one was a young lady working at a big box store that has an
optical center. She also didn't need glasses. In box stores like that they often
hire you for one thing and then put you in something else. That was the case
here. She had no experience with vision or glasses at all. But once she got
trained she really enjoyed her kob. One day when I was in there shopping I
stopped and chatted with her a bit. She was at the frame board trying on
frames. As soon as she saw me she wanted my opinion as to which ones
looked best on her. After a bit i decided on the one I thought looked best
and she said that was her 2nd choice but was happy I picked it. She told
me that her year was nearly up and that meant she could get a free pair of
glasses. I asked her if she needed glasses and she said she wasn't sure
but even if she didn't she still wanted a pair of glasses just to wear for fun
and at the store as well. She was getting her eyes checked later that week.
The next tie I was at her store i saw her working but she wasn't wearing
glasses. I asked her if she had gotten her glasses yet and she told me she
wasn't very happy. She said that her eyesight was perfect so she didn't really
need glasses. But when she went order her glasses she was told that because
she didn't have an actual prescription she couldn't get a free pair. Bingo!
Remembering how I helped my other friend with perfect vision I still had the
very same -1.25 glasses so I told her how she could get glasse sif she wanted
and I let her borrow my sample pair to try away from works so she could see
that it wouldn't dod any harm to her eyes. She was able to get the glasses
she wanted that way and she couldn't stop thanking me.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/03(土) 21:50:20.05

なんかあまり面白いストーリーじゃないよ。
いい加減にしない。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/04(日) 01:35:52.92

-8 glasses are about -0.75 more that you probably need to
match with +6 contacts, but at 28 that should not be a problem.

The biggest issue in going to a higher minus GOC combo is
image minifcation. It takes a while for your brain to learn to
deal with all the issues. If you are comfortable wearing the
+6 / -8 combo for an extended period I would suggest going
to -12 glasses and +10 contacts.

You should also consider an eye exam for contacts to find
out what Base Curve is best for you and maybe your current
actual refractive error. Soft Contact are pretty forgiving, but
you need to be sure that you have a good tear film between
the contacts and your Cornea.

It will probably be a problem getting regular contacts because
of your low prescription. You may need to consider and exam
for eye color changing contacts.

I have not considered your small refractive error in my GOC
calculations.

By the way, GOC calculations are not difficult and at high Rx
the results may be a bit different than the calculations indicate.
The differences occur because of Vertex Distance (VD) effects.
VD effects are the SQUARE of the Glasses Sphere divided by
1000. If you get up to say -20, VD effects are 0.40 diopters
per mm.

Actual VD, which is the distance in mm between your Cornea
and the back surface of the glasses is very hard to measure
or even estimate. Typical VD is about 10 to 12 mm. I typically
use 12 mm in my calculations. To give you an idea of how
important VD is in GOC here are some examples of VD effects
per mm.

-8.00 glasses = 0.06 diopters per mm

-12.00 glasses = 0.14 diopters per mm

-16.00 glasses = 0.25 diopters per mm

-20.00 glasses = 0.40 diopters per mm

To calculate the effective power of MINUS glasses at the
Cornea, you multiply the VD effect per mm of the glasses by
the VD and subtract it from the glasses power. For example
-16.00 glasses 12 mm from the Cornea have an effective power
of -16.00 glasses at the Cornea would be -13.00 and you would
need +13.00 contacts if your refractive error was 0.00.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/04(日) 05:52:50.73

>>126
Could you tell me what is 'GOC'?

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/04(日) 06:01:52.58

Going from -6.00 to -20.00 is probably too much for you to
tolerate very well. Vision occurs in the brain. Your eyes are
merely biological cameras. People who are naturally very
Myopic and need -20 glasses had that happen gradually. We
typically suggest GOC increases of about -4.00 diopters
maximum. We also suggest that you DO NOT buy high minus
glasses online with a prescription much different than yours
and then try to find some contacts that make them work. If
you need Astigmatism correction that is different from what
it in the glasses, it MAY NOT be possible to find Contact
Lenses to make the glasses wearable and still function.

However, I suspect you are determined to try the -20 glasses.
I need your actual complete prescription for your glasses and
the complete prescription in the -20 glasses to even begin
the calculations or determine if they are even possible to wear
comfortably. I also need your age. That will tell me how much
your Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses might be able to
compensate for any inaccuracies.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/04(日) 06:03:35.66

Vertex Distance (VD) (the distance from the front surface
of your Cornea to the back surface of the glasses) is important
with your -6.00 glasses and extremely important with -20.00
glasses because it is necessary to calculate the effective
power of both glasses at the Cornea. Actual VD is extremely
hard to measure accurately. It is typically 10 to 13 mm. I use
12mm in my calculations. The VD problem is that the effects
are the Square (^2) of the Glasses Prescription. With -6.00
glasses the VD effects are 0.036 diopters per mm. That is
why the perfect Contact Lens prescription would be about 0.43
diopters less than your glasses prescription. The perfect Contact
Lens prescription for a person with 0.00 refractive error and
-20 glasses would be about +15.00. VD effects with -20
are 0.40 diopters per mm. Because you need -6 glasses, GOC
Contact Lenses for -20 glasses would be considerably different.
A rough calculation indicates about +9.50 with a VD of 12 mm.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/09(金) 05:58:44.56

再確認しておくと、眼鏡で視力矯正はしっかりするものだ、が結論。
かつては視力矯正を弱めにしたほうが近視の進行が抑えられるという考えがあったが、
現在では否定されている。
近視を弱めに矯正していると進行がかえって激しくなるという実験結果が複数ある。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/09(金) 07:14:03.15

Axial or True Myopia is caused by a mismatch
between the total PLUS power of your eye's
lens system (somewhere around +59 diopters)
and the length of your eyeball, specifically, the
distance from your Crystalline Lens to your Retina
(typically around 17 mm). Unfortunately, at 28
it is very unlikely that your eyeballs can grow
any more than they already have. Your genes
probably won't let that happen or if it does happen,
it won't be very much (there are very rare exceptions).

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/09(金) 07:15:11.74

It is easy, to Induce Pseudo Myopia.
Believe it or not, you are already doing it a
little bit. If you spend 7 hours a day working
with a computer. It is likely that the distance
from your eyes to the display is about 70 cm
or 28 inches.

Using Sir Isaac's formula: Lens
Power = 100 cm / Focus Distance, your
Auto-Focus system is adding about +1.4 diopters
of power to your Crystalline Lenses.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/09(金) 07:17:02.67

Check out frame styles offered by Zenni Optical
or other online retailers. Find one you like that
is not too expensive that you think you would
like to wear for a long time. Once people are used t
o seeing you wearing glasses, you can make some
lens changes without changing the frame and few
people will notice the stronger lenses. However,
you will have trouble going too high for public wear,
because that will be very noticeable. However
you can do GOC at your hearts content, away from
your normal haunts. The reason I suggest lower
cost frames is that you may not wear the frames
for very long, before you order another pair with
stronger lenses.

Order a pair of low prescription glasses, say
-1.00. At 28 you should not have any problem wearing
them, you are already doing GOC with 0.75 over
correction. Start wearing them and let everyone get
used to your glasses. GOCer's suggestion with
your friends will work and family that you have not
seen in a long time. With close family, just say that
you decided to get an eye exam and it turned out
that you needed glasses. You can either start wearing
them full time (the best way) or wearing them
intermittently when you drive, watch TV or go to
the Cinema. Another symptom that is useful when
you want to increase your prescription is to have
trouble reading menu boards or recognizing people,
particularly in low light conditions.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/10(土) 05:35:47.93

平日は車も運転しないし遠方を見ることがなくなり、
主に1-2m程度離れた資料とパソコンのみ。
よってこの頃は朝出勤時だけは遠方用眼鏡だが、
後はずっと中近用眼鏡にしている。こうしないとよく見えない。
矯正不足(遠方視力は0.7-0.8)状態で普段いる訳だけど、
もう老眼になっているから近視が進むこともないだろうと思っている。
遠方眼鏡は-9Dで2.25加入してあり、これだと1.0です。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/10(土) 21:54:09.14

An "Official" prescription is one issued by an
Eye Care Professional, typically after an examination.

Glasses are custom made. The people who make
glasses need a prescription to know how to make t
hem. Most online retailers of glasses do not require
that you provide an "Official" prescription, but they
need information from you as to the various elements
that make up the prescription. They are for each eye:

Sphere Power, Cylinder Power, Cylinder Axis, Prism
Amount, Prism Base Direction, and Add plus special
instructions such as the type of bifocal or trifocal.

The also need your Pupillary Distance, which is the
distance in mm between the centers of your two pupils.

Not all prescriptions have all elements, but they are
typically listed in the above order.

You can t just order "Strong Glasses". The most
important thing is that the glasses you order be
wearable and comfortable. Otherwise, they are a
waste of money and can be very unpleasant to wear.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/10(土) 21:56:32.71

Two sets of twin girls. Eldest are five and a
half the second set two years younger. Number
five is a single girl. Looking after a young family
is fulltime work. My wife has given up her job to
be at home.

I am able to fit in GOC with work and family.
Sundays I GOC with +13 glasses and soft contacts
after Saturday night with no lenses in bed so as
to rest my eyes. Once the kids are all in bed I
change to the RGPs and +22 glasses. The RGPs
I keep in until Wednesday afternoon which is free.
Back with the weak GOC I am able to play normally
with the girls. They see me in both glasses.

Then the cycle restarts Wednesday evening once
they are asleep. I keep in the RGPs until after
work Saturday lunchtime. I don't drive in the
+22 glasses but feel confident to do so in the
other pair.

My boss and work colleagues know me only
in +22 glasses. There have been no comments
or questions so I assume, as you say, they think
I have had cataracts. My job involves a few face
to face interviews in my office, also quite a lot of
telephone work. Computer work is on a laptop
as I find it comfortable to read the screen with
the glasses slightly pulled down. I am not sure
why this works but I can read print with slightly
more sliding down.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/10(土) 22:38:34.19

>>136
なんかつまんないこと書いてないか。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/10(土) 22:44:15.16

>>136
The most important thing about wearing CLs of any type is
Oxygen and Tear delivery to the Cornea. The Cornea is
living tissue, but it DOES NOT have a blood supply.
That means that it must get its Oxygen from the air and
Oxygen, nutrients, and lubrication from tears.

Modern, high moisture, soft CLs have a lot of benefits from
both an ability to pass Oxygen and tears to the Cornea
and from a comfort point to view, but there are limitations.
RGP hard CLs solved one of the big problems with older
hard CLs, nonexistent Oxygen transmission. Older CLs
used several techniques for maintaining tear delivery.
One was to have some slight indents in the surface that
contacted the Cornea that allowed much better tear
delivery to the cornea. The indentations filled with tears
so there was no apparent distortion. Hard contacts also
have the advantage of slightly reshaping the Cornea to
temporarily eliminate Astigmatism.

Many hard CL wearers experience Spectacle Blur when
they take out their hard contacts and put on their glasses.
This is caused by the Cylinder correction in the glasses
not matching the actual (corrected) Astigmatism at the
moment. As the Corneas gradually resumed their natural
shape, the Blur went away because the Astigmatism
and the Cylinder correction were matched.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/13(火) 06:25:49.84

弱めに矯正していると近視が余計に進むという実験結果がある以上、
少なくとも若いうちはしっかり矯正する以外の選択肢はないだろう。
近視の進みようのない中年期になったら近くを楽に見られるように弱めに矯正する選択肢も出てくるけど、
若いうちからきっちりした矯正に慣れている人が中年になったからといって弱めの矯正にしたら
遠くの見え方が物足りないんじゃないかな。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/13(火) 07:30:49.89

They will look exactly the same becase the lens
maker used the same conversion procedure I did,
to make the glasses you have. As I mentioned, the
conversion procedure I used can be used for
conversion in either direction., from + cylinder to
- cylinder or - cylinder to + cylinder. If we start
with the - cylinder prescription of:

OD +28.25, -6.75 x 175 18 BO

OS + 28.00, -5.50 x 155 18 BO

and algebraically add the cylinder to the sphere
+28.25 -6.75 = +21.50

Then change the sign on the cylinder from - to +6.75

then 175 -90 = 85

we are back to your prescription for your Right Eye
for distance

OD +21.50, +6.75 x 85 18 BO

The prescription for your Left Eye (OS) is done the
dame way.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/13(火) 07:32:27.02

I am trying to think of a way you could inexpensively
experiment with slightly more + in your glasses without
ordering, new expensive glasses. Three ideas come
to mind.

1. Vertex Distance effects are VERY significant with
your prescription. Approximately 0.80 diopters per
mm in Sphere. You might move your glasses very
slightly away from your eyes. That has the effect of
increasing the effective Plus power of your glasses

2. You might be able to get some +1.00 Press-on lenses.
They are similar to Press-on Fresnel Prisms, but they
do not introduce distortion like Fresnel Prisms do.
f the back surface of your lenses are flat or almost so,
they could be applied to the back surface. They are
not very expensive and come off easily if they don't help.

3. A supplemental +1.00 lens. They are available a
Clip-on magnifying glasses or over-the-counter reading
glasses. The problem is that because of the shape of
your glasses lenses, I don't thing you could wear them
over your glasses.

At this point, I don't think the additional small amount
of + in your glasses would have much effect on your
need to BO prism. However, it might make your distance
vision more comfortable.

I hope this is understandable and helpful.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/13(火) 09:30:00.79

老眼鏡で鍛えると近視が治ると平松類先生も仰っている

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/06/13(火) 17:14:15.32

>>141
The conversion I did is the prescription you provided,
converted to - Cylinder notation for easier understanding
by me and other members who are used to prescriptions
with - Cylinder. I also provided both Distance and Reading
prescriptions for additional clarity because you prefer r
eading glasses rather than bifocals.

Let me clarify how Cylinder Axis angles are measured.
By convention, 0 degrees is Horizontal and 90 degrees is
Vertical. The degrees are numbered as if you are looking
at the patient. The numbers start at 0 (horizontal) and
increase in a Counter-Clockwise direction through 90
degrees and on around to 179. 0 and 180 degrees are
the same Axis so it is not necessary for the Axis numbers
to exceed 180. The Long Axis of your Astigmatism is
very close to Horizontal. More about Astigmatism, Cylinder
and Axis, in my detailed response.

The test you did with the book that yielded approximately
40 cm indicates that the +3.00 Add for reading is having
the approximate effect of a +2.50 Add. That means that
you could probably use an additional +0.50 in your
distance glasses. The actual reading glasses Add depends
strictly on your preferred reading distance. With no
accommodation ability, you can easily change your
reading distance to focus, but you have no way to
compensate for distance. You may be slightly under
corrected for distance as I mentioned in my previous post.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/07/18(火) 10:06:06.57

遠くも近くも見えるメガネとパソコンやスマホ用の近くだけ見やすいメガネを用途によって代えるよりも
遠くも近くも見えるメガネをずっと使ってる方が目に良いってこと？

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/07/18(火) 15:21:34.07

When buying eyeglasses, the frame you choose is
important to both your appearance and your comfort
when wearing glasses. But the eyeglass lenses
you choose influence four factors: appearance,
comfort, vision and safety.

Woman who is happy with her oval-shaped glasses
Eyeglass lens thickness is determined in part by
the size and style of the frame you choose.
For thinner lenses, choose smaller, round or oval
frames. Also, plastic frames hide edge thickness
better.

A common mistake people often make when buying
eyeglasses is not spending enough time considering
their choices of eyeglass lens materials, designs
and coatings.

This article gives you the basics you need to
know to buy eyeglasses lenses wisely.

The following information applies to all prescription
lenses for glasses ? whether you need single vision
lenses to correct nearsightedness, farsightedness,
and/or astigmatism, or you need progressive lenses,
bifocals or other multifocal lenses to also correct
presbyopia.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/07/28(金) 13:50:02.71

>>144
用途別のメガネの使い分けが目に良いかはまだ未解明だけど、
弱めのメガネを近くを見るときも遠くを見るときもずっとかけてるのと
よく見えるようにきっちり合わせたメガネを同じくずっとかけてるのとでは
弱めをかけてるほうが近視の進行が抑えられることが実験で分かった。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/07/28(金) 13:51:39.86

間違えた。逆。
弱めをかけてるほうが近視の進行が激しいことが実験で分かった。

**144** · 2017/07/28(金) 17:40:38.15

>>146
老眼だから遠くぴったりと1Dぐらい弱めたのと使い分け必須です。
この年になったらさすがに近視は進まないでしょう。
6年間ぐらい遠方矯正度数は変わってませんから。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/07/28(金) 18:50:32.85

老眼年齢だったら近視の進行はもう関係ないね。
若い人の眼鏡の使い分けは、かけかえを面倒がってどちらかの眼鏡だけで過ごしてしまう人がいそうなのがネックだね。
きっちり眼鏡だけで過ごしてくれたらいいけど、
弱めの眼鏡だけで過ごしてしまったら近視の進行が助長されてしまう。
手元に弱めの眼鏡があると、いくら手元専用といっても
どうしても弱めの眼鏡ばかり使ってしまうリスクが生じるから
きっちり合わせた眼鏡しか手元にないようにしたほうが安全なんじゃないかな。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/07/28(金) 21:40:46.14

>>149
ありがとうございました。
コンタクトでずっと1.5キープしていました。
併用眼鏡も極力1.0にしていました。
それでも強度近視ですが、下手したらもっと度数が強くなったのでしょうね。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/07/28(金) 22:15:14.32

>>145
Your eyeglass prescription is typically written in a grid like the one
below, using a combination of terms, abbreviations, and numbers.
Usually you’ll see these abbreviations along the left side:

O.D. stands for oculus dexter, meaning right eye.
O.S. stands for oculus sinister, meaning left eye.
O.U. stands for and oculus uterque, meaning both eyes.

Then along the top, you may see this lingo. These abbreviations
reflect the measurements of specific aspects of your vision, and
can be pretty confusing at first.

SPH(or Sphere) indicates the eyeglass prescription power, or how
strong your lenses need to be to correct your vision. For an indicator
of how much magnifying power is needed in a bifocal or progressive
lens to correct your vision problems, look for ADD.

CYL (or Cylinder) indicates astigmatism, a condition where the
cornea is irregularly shaped causing blurred or distorted vision.
It also tells the lens strength needed to fix it.

AXIS describes the degree and direction of your astigmatism.

ADD is added magnifying power in the lower part of a multi-focal
lens. It’s used to correct presbyopia which is the inability to focus
on close objects.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/07/28(金) 22:16:05.93

>>151

Your glasses prescription includes a number for every aspect of
your vision that needs correction. When learning how to interpret
your prescription, keep in mind that usually the further from zero
the numbers are, the more correction you need.

A plus or minus sign in front of your glasses prescription number
is shorthand for
near or farsightedness.

+ means you’re farsighted or have trouble seeing things close up.
- means you’re nearsighted, or struggle with seeing far away.

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/09/16(土) 02:58:29.15

完全に矯正しない弱めのメガネだと視力が悪くなるという説もある。ぼやけた状態が続くと目がもっと悪くなるそうだ。ということはメガネが無かった時代は加速度的に目が悪くなるってことになるんじゃないかな

てっことは、0.7くらいに視力が落ちた段階ですぐに矯正した方がいいんだよね？

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/09/24(日) 10:29:25.24

支離滅裂な文章ばかりで気分が悪くなってきた。
精神崩壊した人の話を聞いてるときみたい。
このページを開いたことを後悔しました、さようなら。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/09/28(木) 08:27:42.60

前スレ　終了

メガネで視力矯正はどれくらいやるもの？
http://rio2016.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/megane/1208600496/

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/04(水) 04:25:23.17

眼鏡屋さんに行って「作った眼鏡の度数が変です」って言ったら「計測器で計ったままの度数の眼鏡にすると目が疲れるので、度数を少し落として作ってます」って言われた。今まで掛けていた眼鏡は度数がキツいのでパッと見はよく見えるけど目が疲れやすいとのこと

でも、強めに矯正した方がいいなら、眼鏡屋の言っていること間違ってね？

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/04(水) 22:09:41.58

なんぞそれ
ちゃんとレンズ付け変えながら検査しない店?
激安店ってそんな感じなの？
カルチャーショックだわ

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/07(土) 08:15:09.00

>>156
「度数の進行を抑えるためにはきっちり矯正したほうがいいですが、
楽に見られるメガネにするためには弱めにしたほうがいいです」
の前半を省略して弱めがいいと言うメガネ屋と
後半を省略してきっちりがいいと言うメガネ屋がいるから
どっちなんだよと思ってしまうよね

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/08(日) 03:47:45.99

このスレッドではきっちり矯正すべきという意見に傾いているのではありませんか。
私の経験では、
きっちり矯正で疲れると言うのは、長時間パソコンや読書などをした場合で、
それは正視の人でも疲れます。
私は以前はコンタクトで視力1.5まで矯正していましたが、
仕事でも趣味ごとでも全く疲れませんでした。
現在は老眼になったので、遠近と中近の眼鏡を使い分けています。
それは目が疲れるからではなく、遠近だとパソコン画面が見えないからです。

**159** · 2017/10/08(日) 04:01:47.33

すみません追記します。
現在眼鏡視力は1.0見えています。両眼視ではギリギリ1.2かどうかです。
中近の眼鏡でも遠くの方を見るレンズ上方で1.0が何とか見えます。
コンタクトで遠方が広い視野ですっきり見えていた時代と比べるとどうかなと思いますが、
これぐらい見えていれば不自由なないと言っておきましょう。
（ただし、遠近の眼鏡はよく見える視野は狭いです。）

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/13(金) 15:30:27.51

>>156
今日自分がそうだったが、7時から12時前までパソコン操作を続けたので、
そういうことをすれば疲れるのは当然じゃないかな。

自分の経験では、弱めにして遠くの文字や人の顔が解りにくくてイライラするよりも、
1.0などにきっちり矯正する方がストレスも、「疲れる」という経験もなかった。
今は老眼だから、パソコンなどの時は中近が必要ですが、
それは別の話しでしょう。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/24(火) 20:59:21.98

眼科とか眼鏡屋って、目に負担かかるからかけても0.8くらいになるのが丁度いいって言ってくるけど、それ間違いなんだよな

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/25(水) 04:47:15.20

>>162
https://i.imgur.com/wmbtp2j.jpg

ここにもあるように、コンタクトで強めに矯正すると目は疲れるけど近視は進まなくなるらしい

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/25(水) 21:02:16.56

>>162 >>163
弱めの方がいいと言う眼鏡屋さんなんてまだあるんだ。

強めにというのがどういう表現なのかな？
私はコンタクトでしっかり矯正したら1.5は見えてた。
目の疲れなどありませんでした。
いま、眼鏡でも1.0は見えてます。

遠くが見にくい方がかえって疲れませんか？

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/25(水) 22:14:17.65

眼鏡の視力矯正の理屈がわかってない奴が多いな
>>164とか典型

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/26(木) 18:17:10.34

理屈をご教示お願い致します。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/28(土) 09:24:48.93

ピント調節だけの理屈で考えたら
眼鏡の矯正を弱めにしたほうが疲れにくいはずだけど、
輻輳とのバランスをも考え合わせると
必ずしも弱めのほうが楽だと言い切れるものではないね。

楽か疲れるかの問題の他に、近視が進みやすいか進みにくいかの問題もあって、
こちらについては弱めにあわせると進みやすいという実験結果がある。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/28(土) 14:43:32.58

40超えると弱めにしないと近くが見えなくなる
（本が読めない）。
オレは、だいたい矯正視力0.5くらいにしてる

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/29(日) 00:28:45.95

よく見えないと目ががんばって補正しようと眼軸が長くなるというなら悲劇だな
短くなってくれればいいのに

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/29(日) 16:44:14.50

近視を弱めに矯正しているとかえって近視の進行が激しくなる実験結果は、
ボケた映像が網膜に映ると眼軸が延びるという、
本来は幼少期の遠視を治すためのメカニズムが
近視のせいでボケている場合にも誤って働いてしまうためだと推測されているね。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/30(月) 11:47:09.46

ということは、0.7とかに下がりはじめたらさっさと眼鏡かけて1.0とか1.5とかにした方がいいってことだよね？

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/30(月) 16:14:48.71

>>170
まあそうなのかもしれませんね。
ただ、人間の目というのはそんなに精度の良いセンサーではなく、
脳が画像補正してるからあのように見えると言うことも聞いたことがある。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/10/30(月) 16:18:54.93

>>168
矯正0.5ではなく、しっかり1.0で遠近の利用の方がいいと思いますよ。
50歳過ぎると中近も欲しくなる。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/04(土) 06:50:32.96

>>172
網膜の感覚細胞の数に比べて眼球から脳へ情報を送る視神経は数が少ないから
網膜自体が輪郭や動きの検出といった画像処理をかなり行っているはずだとも言うね。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/04(土) 08:07:05.28

>>165
理屈が解ってないと他人を非難しながら、
説明がないと言うことはこの人も解ってないんだ。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/04(土) 13:43:32.33

近視の眼鏡をよく見えるように合わせたくらいでそんなに疲れるなら、
裸眼でよく見えてしまう人は疲れまくりだわ。
よく見える度数よりさらに大幅に強すぎる度数にしたらそれは疲れるだろうけど、
単によく見える度数にするだけなら問題ない。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/04(土) 14:16:45.98

164です
皆さんフォローありがとうございます。
きっちり1.0まで矯正して、疲れるとかという感覚はありません。
中近眼鏡でも1.0ギリギリ見えます。そうじゃなきゃ仕事も生活も不自由です。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/04(土) 17:43:06.32

>>172 >>174
http://gigazine.net/news/20170926-pixelnn/
こんな補正能力持ってる人いるかもな。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/04(土) 19:31:36.28

>>178
120万本しかない視神経を通して物を見ていながら
120万画素のデジカメよりずっと高精細な映像が見えることには
リンク先のような補正処理の介在を想定せざるをえないから、
まともな矯正視力の出る人はみなそんな補正能力を使っていて、
使った結果が視力1.0なり1.5なりなんだと思うよ。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/05(日) 16:12:20.49

矯正視力だけじゃなくて、
一般に視力としてそれがいえるんだろう。
裸眼視力1.5とか2.0の人も。
モンゴルやアフリカやアラブの4.0や5.0の人たちは
子供の頃からそういう環境で脳も発達してると。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/05(日) 16:36:12.60

自分のセンサとしての目は
裸眼で0.02程度しか見えないが、
矯正した後0.8か1.0か1.2かは脳の性能ということですね。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/05(日) 22:36:58.17

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/視神経
>視神経は約100万の神経線維を持つ。この数は網膜にある約1億3000万の受容体に比べ少なく
おおまかに視野が左右上下に100°として、網膜に均等に投影されるとして、視神経100万も均等に配置されてれば
１°平方に100個、６分平方に１個。１分の解像度が1.0だから、0.16？
受容体はその100倍で0.6分平方に１個配置されてるのかな？
これだと1.5出るから、実際と合うけど、かなり大まかな計算だし、受容体100個まとめて１つの神経で送るんだろう？
そこまでの処理が知りたい。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/06(月) 01:55:51.37

視野は150度ぐらいあると思うが、
視力が1.0ぐらいあるのは中心のほんの一部だと聞いている。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/07(火) 22:05:57.49

受容体や神経は中心窩にどれくらい集中しているんだろう

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/10(金) 16:23:41.88

普段眼鏡店で眼鏡視力測ると、
右1.0ギリギリ（見えない指標が１個ぐらいあることが多い）
左1.0間違いなし。
両目で1.2か1.0どまりです。
安定していて午前にやっても夕方やっても大体こうなります。
今日会社の検診であののぞき込みのテスターで測定。
あのタイプは見やすいのか、去年は左右とも1.2だったはず。
今年は右1.5だったが、左0.9に終わった。
一仕事（パソコンを当然使う）の後に測ったからかな。
その後、左右の見え方チェックした。
いつもと同じく左の方が少しだけ鮮やかに見えるんだけど？

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/11(土) 02:21:19.32

でっちゅー

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/21(火) 01:10:38.72

車運転するなら両眼で1.2-1.5と言う人がいるけど、
きついなあ。
自分1.0は何とかなるけど。。。

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/21(火) 22:20:11.63

映画のスクリーンとか展望台から景色を見下ろすような感じで全体図を視界いっぱいに捉えようとするから疲れるんじゃないのかな

車の免許取るとき、「ひたすら真っ直ぐ走り続ける時でも常に視点を移動して、対向車や後方から追い越していく車のナンバーを読み取れるぐらいじゃないとダメだ」と言われたのを思い出した

**-7.74Dさん** · 2017/11/22(水) 08:05:04.08

普通はあちこち視線を移動して文字を読むのは目の疲れることの代表格で、
全体を眺めるのは疲れにくい代表格だけど、
逆に感じる人もいるのか